Saraphina, born to speak all mirth and no matter (saraphina_marie) wrote in terre_d_ange,
Saraphina, born to speak all mirth and no matter

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Ok, so I finished the series... and I am dying to get some more discussion going...this community has been too quiet!

Ok, for those of you who have finished the whole series, what did you think of how everything played out? Were your questions answered? Did you feel things were lacking?

I thought it was perfect, finally a happy ending for Phedre! Especially after all she has suffered and sacrificed...

I also emailed Madame Carey about it, about her use of spirituality and how she came to the pantheon she has used in the answers were slightly vague (but hey she wrote back!) and it would seem that she studied many theologies and pantheons and adapted them for her world with the exception of Blessed Elua who she made up entirely...but doesn't it seem that he should exist? And do you think that by that rational, and by the fact that for the time we have been reading the series with all the seriousness and obsession I know most (if not all) of us do...can we say that now he could almost exist? Just because we believed in him even for a short time?

I also have enjoyed how Joscelin's character has progressed into a more multi-dimentional person, how he grows a sense of humor and such. Ah, if it's possible to be totally smitten with a fictional character! What a lovely threesome we'd have in thier house! *ahem* I digress....

So, let's drum up some discussion, shall we?
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I think that to an extent because we beleive in him, Eula does exist. He may not have been knowingly based on any pantheon, but as I pagan I can definately see him as an aspect of the god. I think he fits some sort of archetype anyhow - he's a very christ-like figure.

About a year ago, I got "Love as thou wilt" tattooed on my back, along with a miniature brair-rose, because I loved that idea so much, and it's something I really beleive. I'm yet to find something that speaks as strongly to me for my next tattoo.

Although I saw the Joscelin/Phedre ending coming miles away, I still liked it, and in some ways I thought that the last book was the best. It's really hard to pick a favourite.
I got "love as thou wilt" tattooed on my arm, with briar roses circling my arm!

I've been smitten with Joscelin since I read the first book in 2002. Out of any fictional character I have ever read he is the one I have fallen the most in love with. The fact that an author could do that absolutely amazes me.

I actually wish that he were real and were mine!

I'm not sure which book I find the best, but I'm the most attached to the first book, and I like some specific scenes from the second book the best.

I believe in Elua more than I believe in jesus!
I never really fell for Joscelin, but then I am gay :P

I love Carey's detail. I'm a detail nut so really being able to visualise things is great. I'd love to make movies of the books - but I can see Orlando Bloom being cast inevitably as Joscelin, and with my sister's LOTR collection migrating out of her room into the hall, I don't like that much.
I have just as much of a crush on Phedre as Joscelin!

Most of the people I have talked to have said that they would prefer to BE Phedre....

But I'm dominant so I can't really see it.

It's funny, I saw the second LOTR movie right after reading Kushiel's Chosen... and during the movie I spent more time drawing connections between the movie and the Kushiel books than on the story.

I was drawing comparisons to the elves and D'Angelines, and having everyone else be Skaldi...

The first time Legolas walked on the screen I thought "Joscelin!"

I'm definitely not a LOTR nut, I saw the movies because I was dragged. :)
I'm a bit torn as to wether I'd be her or have her. I tend to be switchy so I could maybe do both.

I saw the first one on my own, but my sister and best friend sat me down and made me watch the other two. I think there was just too much war and not enough eye candy.
I don't think I could handle Orlando Bloom as Joscelin. I don't think he has quite that razor's edge personality. Besides, as pretty as he is, he is a total airhead. After I listened to the commentary on the LOTR DVDs, I have a hard time taking him or Liv Tyler seriously.

If I were to cast Joscelin in a film, I would look for someone unknown I think. Someone with those light features but shadowy soul, someone who would epitomize his constant torment of choosing Phedre over his vows, over his own life, etc., someone who hold's a fair measure of Cassiel within him. And I just don't think Orlando Bloom is capable of being that.
Nor do I think he is tall and statuesque enough.
Orlando Bloom is a babe, I won't argue that, and I'd have him over my knee then into my bed in a minute if I could.
But he is just not Joscelin.

If I was casting, I'd make them use my friend Seth, who looks, sounds, and usually acts dead-on like Joscelin, although I was loathe to admit it since he and I haven't been on the best of terms and I am definitely not as attracted to him as to the character, but still, the physical resembalnce is eerily striking.
I agree with the whole "i want to make a movie of the books thing". Carey so vividly portrays everything that I can just see it being made into one, if you don't get to it before I do then thats the first movie I'm ever going to make.

Orlando Bloom? Any particular reason you choose him?
We could always work together :)

I guess Orlando Bloom just appeared to be the closest to what I imagined Joscelin as. Maybe Heath Ledger would work too. I tend to like older guys more so I'm not really the right person to ask.

Apart from that, my friend's husband has long dark hair and looks sort of like David Borenaz (but not in an annoying way). If I could get him to bleach his hair, I think he'd be perfect, especially since he does fire-twirling so is already very handy with a staff.
Orlando Bloom? How typical. The most overrated Hollywood 'pretty-boy' actor who thinks he's an action hero...and you choose him to play a character as deep as Joscelin? But I'm not really surprised. It just seems ironic that a 'fan' would cast such a FAD of an actor for a part that's...anything but. If you truly think Bloom could capture the character of Joscelin, I don't think you've quite been able to grasp it yourself. Just because he pulled off long blonde hair in LotR does NOT make him fit for the part. Sorry.
Like I said, I'm in no way, shape or form an Orlando Bloom fan. I can't stand him.

I'm not convinced he could pull it off. I just couldn't think of anyone that really struck me as being good for it.

There's no need to get personal.
I lean more towards the side of "Being" Phedre she embodies something that has been very real for me for a very longtime. THe Phrase love as thou wilt has been a big part of my life after reading the first book I have said it many times and in many political speeches I have had to make. (funny the allusions one has to make that only amuse themselves) Me on the other hand I absolutely LOVE the pure power and control of Melisande. I believe that someone must further themself in this world in order to win out. I fell in love with Melisande from the beggining the surety of her power and the way she used her mind. Although she had a few tragic flaws. I loved Joscelin from a distance and he reminds me of someone in my own life. It's hard to understand me sometimes being as I am and he had to be there. I loved LOTR but after reading the books I saw legolas as slightly different in my head and he definitely was not too much like joscelin except in his quiet manner. I prefered Striders straight out cut roughness. Who were everyones favorite secondary characters?
Well in the KUSHIEL'S LEGACY series, it's all about Hyacinthe. He verymuch rocks the planet. But I think I favored her rendition of the gypsies in her world because I am Romani myself. She really used the culture there very accurately. I never ceased to be impressed with her graps of history and culture.
Melisande really chilled me, but I know it is because I don't understand her in the slightest. I am still madly in love with Joscelin. I love the anti-hero type.
But I also love Phedre's Boys and the chevaliers who follow her to her household (and to certain death, Remy and Fortun were so tragically awesome). And the whole situation with the Unforgiven, that was amazing.
I think that's the real test of a good writer, making the secondary, terciary, and other assorted background characters so vividly REAL.
Ah, Melisande Shahrizai, the one being I aspire to being.
The intrigue throughout the entire series is what kept me there (And of course Phedre but not as much) Jacqueline did such a fatastic job of making Melisande's game run deep. I'm only reading Kushiel's Chosen for the second time and I'm loving. I'm now noticing how Jacqueline hints at the conclusion to the novel throught the book. I laugh now as I read because I can see what's coming up from a mile away (and not just because I've read it).
I was disappointed in Melisande's story ending...I don't know...I guess I wanted more.

I feel so young compared to you guys. I don't know how old you are really, but I'm only 16...

I never knew there was more to the Kushiel Stories. That series is the only one I've found by Jacquline. Does anyone know where I can find more by her?
Loved the books. They were awsome. I didn't like Melisande really. I respected what she stood for but I couldn't stand her. Phedre's okay. I'd like to try being her for maybe a day just to see what it feels like. I rather liked Joscelyn. And it is totally okay to be smitten with a fictional character. I'm smitten with quite a few of them actually! As to the movie idea. I hate to burst someone's bubble but you do realize great fiction is sometimes overlooked. Let's face it. The Necrscope books have been out since, I think but don't hold me to this, 86 and they're only just now THINKING about turning the first book into a movie. We could, potentially, have a very long wait ahead of us here on this one. By the way while I'm on the topic of Necroscope,Saraphina_Marie you may enjoy them.There's a lot amout the Romani/Szagani and the gypsies and Romania itslef in them. The other thing to consider is movies tend to butcher otherwise wonderful works. Hodling as example the Rice books. They got Inteview fine and then went and butchered Queen of the Damned. I agree that Orlando wouldn't cut it. I don't see him as being serious enough to pull of Joscelin. Though I'm not sure who COULD pull of Joscelin. And then there's Phaedra to be cast. Gah! But I can't continue. My brother has now demanded the computer and I must leave.
Yes, I would love to see the books as a movie, but then I think of the essential part of sex that is in the books. To make the story available to a general audience without an "X" or higher rating, they would need to manipulate the entire story and make it something different and more acceptable, or at least less scandalous. It would totally change the story and eliminate most of what Phèdre is. Sure, they could still show the wars, and some of the fêtes, but the midwinter masque (Phèdre's assignation with Melisande, b/c of Phède's dress) would be gone, as well as her time in Drujan with the Mahrksagir (the enormity of his evil would be cut out without that elicit example). It's not something I could bear to see. anyone wanting to debate the point is welcome to email me at

love to all, may which ever god you worship go with you,